Resilience starts with staying human | Dr Rose Aghdami
What does resilience really mean?
For many people, the word has become associated with simply pushing through, coping no matter what, or carrying on regardless. But what if resilience isn't about becoming tougher at all?
In this episode I'm joined by chartered coaching psychologist Dr Rose Aghdami, author of How to FUEL Your Resilience.
Together we explore why resilience has developed such a mixed reputation at work, how one conversation with a client changed the direction of Rose's career, and why staying human might be the most resilient thing we can do.
Rose also introduces her practical 'FUEL' model and shares simple ways to recognise when we're running on empty, protect our energy, and respond more intentionally when work and life become challenging.
In this episode we explore:
- Why resilience sometimes gets a bad reputation
- The client conversation that changed Rose's career
- Why resilience starts with staying human
- The FUEL model for building resilience
- Recognising the signs you're running on empty
- Why managing your energy matters just as much as managing your time
- Practical ideas you can try this week
About Rose
Dr Rose Aghdami is a chartered coaching psychologist, speaker and author specialising in resilience, wellbeing and professional performance. She works with individuals and organisations to help people thrive in demanding environments.
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Transcript
Rose Aghdami
[:[00:00:11] I'm Ross McIntosh, and in this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Rose Agdame, chartered coaching psychologist and author of How to [00:00:20] Fuel Your Resilience. Rose's work explores what helps us build resilience in a way that's both practical and sustainable. But as you'll hear, this isn't simply a conversation [00:00:30] about becoming more resilient.
[:[00:00:47] Along the way, Rose shares the client [00:00:50] conversation that changed the direction of her career, introduces her FUEL model, and offers some thoughtful, practical ideas for protecting our energy and [00:01:00] responding more intentionally when life and work become challenging.
[:[00:01:14] And I wonder, Rose, if you just wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about your career, just so we can get to know
[:[00:01:20] Rose: Yeah, sure. So, originally I was very interested in international affairs, languages, cross-cultural, studies and so on. but I picked up a book in a [00:01:30] bookshop, Aston University bookshop to be very precise, and it was the first psychology book I'd ever picked up, and I was absolutely transfixed, and I decided that this [00:01:40] is what I really want to study.
[:[00:02:08] then came back to the UK [00:02:10] and worked in adult mental health there For a short while in the NHS and then in the private sector. And that took me from specializing in trauma and then [00:02:20] specializing in anxiety and anxiety-related areas, OCD, panic attacks, to thinking about how could I [00:02:30] work in a more preventative way. Against extreme exhaustion, stress, anxiety, burnout, and discovered that resilience was the area that kept, [00:02:40] kept appearing.
[:[00:03:06] So I started to take this model out into [00:03:10] organizations and, Got a good, feedback, good reception with that. And I also started to build it into my, psychology sessions towards the end of a course of [00:03:20] sessions when, when we'd started to think about relapse prevention and what skills they might-- take away with them into, into their lives again.
[:[00:03:49] Ross: Great stuff. [00:03:50] Thank you, Rose. I wonder if I could delve a bit deeper into some of that, because we'll come back to the, the FUEL model, which I love, in a moment. But I'm so [00:04:00] curious, thinking about you at Aston University bookshop, picking up one psychology book. Can you remember what it was? It shows the power of
[:[00:04:08] Rose: It does actually, you're right. [00:04:10] I can remember, I went to Birmingham University, but of course Aston University and the bookshop is fairly close to the city center, it was "I'm Okay, You're Okay", the classic, and it [00:04:20] just opened up this world of being aware of that there is an inner world.
[:[00:04:45] Ross: So that, that was a, a pivotal moment just led by an instant [00:04:50] in a, in a bookshop. I wonder if there's been any other pivotal moments in your career that you could, that you could share
[:[00:04:58] Rose: Yes. [00:05:00] this marks my, the tipping point really into the focus on, professional wellbeing. it was when I was in the, in the [00:05:10] clinic I mentioned in Windsor, and, I had a client there who I know is happy for me to share this story because I've discussed it with her in the past. and she [00:05:20] was sent along, which is not usually a very good start if somebody's sent along by their manager to go and see a psychologist.
[:[00:05:43] Relationships with other colleagues, uh, communication, pressure at work, exhaustion. And [00:05:50] she was really not feeling well. and she said to me, "You know, do many people come with the same sort of situation?
[:[00:06:12] "Oh," she said, "So you mean work can make you ill?" And I thought, [00:06:20] gosh, in some situations that is absolutely spot on. you know, given how much time, effort, energy we devote to [00:06:30] work, given how much time we spend with our colleagues, focusing on our projects and, and expectations and deadlines and so on, I thought that's a [00:06:40] really important comment that she's made here.
[:[00:07:03] And so the resilience area developed, because I believe, you know, [00:07:10] resilience is about thriving, not just surviving, we can help people to live a great life, not just a good life.
[:[00:07:30] resilience.
[:[00:07:48] to that?
[:[00:08:21] people just expect me, expect me to be tough as nails and not feel anything and, do, yeah, the work of three [00:08:30] people and not complain and not point out that this is unrealistic." so yes, I, I think, it has become or had become, a way of some [00:08:40] employers pathologizing the individual and saying, "You know, if only you were more resilient, you'd be able to manage this.
[:[00:09:03] And so, so yes, resilience means so many different things, to different people that, it's [00:09:10] important, I think, to really pinpoint what it is that we mean by resilience. what I mean by it is it's a way of coping well and [00:09:20] facing, recognizing, and coping well with stress and adversity.
[:[00:09:53] You know, I think resilience starts with st- staying human really, that we acknowledge that we have emotions that run [00:10:00] alongside these challenges. We might feel scared, we might feel overwhelmed, we might feel worried, we might have self-doubt, insecurities, we might [00:10:10] feel vulnerable. At the same time as recognizing that actually we do have skills we can draw on.
[:[00:10:42] Ross: Gosh, thank you, Rose, for expressing that with such clarity because I absolutely agree, [00:10:50] and on my platform here, I'd really like to elevate your definition of resilience because I do think there are people [00:11:00] out there promoting the alternative.
[:[00:11:32] we want to have a resilient mindset and a resilient lifestyle to sustain resilience so that it's, it's part of the way [00:11:40] we approach things. It's a perspective. that then translates into particular choices of decisions and, behaviors. but it's not meant to be, I, I don't believe, a sort [00:11:50] of, sprint with no end.
[:[00:12:06] Ross: Absolutely. Which I think leads us [00:12:10] nicely into your Fuel Your Resilience model, And I wonder if you could give us a headline version of the, model,
[:[00:12:19] Rose: I will [00:12:20] try and be succinct.
[:[00:12:34] Not just my view, according to the research. We need flexibility in, our [00:12:40] thoughts So we, we need to recognize that there are different ways of seeing things and that our thoughts will guide our feelings. So if we believe we can't [00:12:50] possibly do something, if that's our thought, as human beings, we, we respond to thoughts as if they're facts.
[:[00:13:28] and the fourth, I [00:13:30] believe, is a pretty important one. We need flexibility in the way we see ourselves, in our sense of self-identity. If we continue to think of ourselves [00:13:40] in perhaps our old roles, "Oh, I, I've always been a worrier," let's say, then that will override all sorts of good strategies and techniques [00:13:50] that could help to shift that.
[:[00:14:12] So we need to be open to that, flexibility in our self-identity. So that's F in a nutshell. U [00:14:20] is about using your resources, and we all have internal resources, and there are always external resources. So it's about being open to tapping into both, and [00:14:30] drawing on them. The internal resources are things like skills, experiences we've had, personal qualities, strengths, and we carry those with us all the time.
[:[00:15:20] Maybe we have activities, people in our lives who drain us. Is it possible, might not be possible to eliminate it completely from our lives, but can we [00:15:30] reduce time spent either on those tasks or with those people, for example? how can we build in more activities that energize [00:15:40] us? Because if you think of perhaps the image of a high-performance car, we have to make time to refuel that.
[:[00:16:09] We might [00:16:10] need psychological energy. We might need emotional energy. So it's about recognizing that really without making time to do this, we're just running on [00:16:20] empty, and it's not really good to anybody, let alone to ourselves. So we have come now to L of FUEL, and L is for [00:16:30] locate your control. It's about noticing where we can take charge And where we can't.
[:[00:16:57] We can always take charge of our own response to [00:17:00] things. and it's about strengthening that, capacity to influence how we experience things. There, there are two types of locus of control. One, one [00:17:10] is internal locus of control, where we believe we can take charge of our experiences, and our responses to things.
[:[00:17:31] You know, somebody says something and they blow one way. Something else happens out there, or somebody else [00:17:40] says the other opposite thing, and they blow the other way. And so it doesn't feel very grounded. It feels very random. and so people [00:17:50] feel quite helpless. And the sort of phrases that give away if a person has an external locus of control are things like, " I have no [00:18:00] choice.
[:[00:18:34] So that's my overview of the, the FUEL model.
[:[00:18:54] I can also see acceptance and commitment therapy there. And I just want to zoom in on the F in your [00:19:00] model, the, the flexibility And wonder if you can help us see why flexibility is so important when life or work gets difficult
[:[00:20:11] I, I don't think it is sustainable in a healthy way. So flexibility on all those points is something that will help a person [00:20:20] to feel more able, more in charge, more, powerful in a good way in terms of being able to shape their experience.
[:[00:20:51] and so flexibility is crucial for us to be able to nurture that relationship with ourselves, make sure that we are [00:21:00] living true to our values, make sure that we are being loyal to ourselves, caring of ourselves, uh, compassionate to ourselves, understanding [00:21:10] and acting accordingly And that could mean doing all sorts of things, whether it's thinking, feeling, behaving that we've never done before.
[:[00:21:41] That's very difficult for us to do, and hence the, the flexibility, um, being very key to resilience [00:21:50] in my view
[:[00:22:00] and pretending we're fine?
[:[00:22:34] I'm getting through the day. I'm ticking off my, to-do list, but I'm not [00:22:40] thriving here. This is not at my best. People can go one or out of two ways really. They can either sort of find ways of distancing themselves, [00:22:50] so turning up a bit late and just wanting to leave.
[:[00:23:10] And because they're not working as efficiently as usual, it takes them longer, and it takes more energy and time and effort and emotion to get through. So people will [00:23:20] either feel that draw to be distanced, or they will engage even more in the tasks. People can become, uh, rather [00:23:30] easily irritated, which I have discovered when I've asked people that question.
[:[00:23:57] often it's with those people who are closest to [00:24:00] you where you believe that the relationships are so solid they can take a bruise or two now and then. And if that's out of character, which it is for many people, that's something to [00:24:10] notice and, pick up on and think, you know, what, what's going on here?
[:[00:24:21] Ross: So it takes some self-awareness to realize this is happening to ourselves
[:[00:24:43] Ross: Yeah. Do you think there's shame in seeking
[:[00:24:47] Rose: It's definitely for some people there is. Yeah, for some people [00:24:50] it's very, very difficult. for others not so, because perhaps they have discovered that, you know, by, being open about their, their neediness, people [00:25:00] tend to flock. There's a phrase, isn't there? How does it go? the squeaky wheel gets the oil so sometimes when people are comfortable with being needy because [00:25:10] perhaps they've grown up, belief that it's okay to ask for help, and if you ask for help, you'll get it, they will get help generally. People do generally offer to [00:25:20] help. We like helping others, within reason, you know?
[:[00:26:07] So, you know, this is where the sort of the [00:26:10] loyalty to oneself comes into it, the relationship to oneself being so important to be self-respectful, to be loyal to oneself, to be aware of what's going [00:26:20] on, in order to understand that the shame is probably misplaced
[:[00:26:47] Rose: I love that question. It's such an interesting, it's such an interesting, uh, concept to think of having walk-on music. Well, there's a song that I particularly [00:26:50] like, and when I go locally in the summer evenings, there's a, a regular s- lovely singer on a terrace. and he, he sings this song [00:27:00] quite regularly, and if he sees me there, he sings it for me. So, uh, it's sort of, in a way, my song. But, uh, I was thinking, "Why do I like this song so [00:27:10] much? And the song is, Wonderful Life by Black. But, you know, the lyrics are quite interesting. They're not all about life being [00:27:20] wonderful, because the, the writer, who was Colin, Verncombe he'd had a, a terrible period in his life just before he [00:27:30] wrote this song, "Wonderful Life." All sorts of things had happened, and, you know, some of the lyrics are things like, "Here I am on my own again," and this sort of thing.[00:27:40]
[:[00:28:02] He wasn't experiencing it like that when he wrote the song. Um, but the potential is there for life to be [00:28:10] wonderful. And that sort of resonated, I suppose, with my whole interest in resilience and overcoming adversity. [00:28:20] and I like the tune and I like the backstory to this, the song, that even when life is [00:28:30] very challenging, there is this awareness, I think, i- in us that life can be wonderful.
[:[00:28:59] [00:29:00] But when we're not experiencing such extreme distress, then, I believe that we can choose [00:29:10] intentionally to make changes to make our life a good life, and if it's already a good life, a great life. And so the notion that [00:29:20] the song, offers that, that awareness that life can be very difficult but also life could be very wonderful, is something that, uh, sort of [00:29:30] sums my own, approach, my own mindset up really.
[:[00:29:42] and hide?
[:[00:29:45] No.
[:[00:29:47] Rose: Exactly. Yes, that is part of the [00:29:50] song. and I like that too because, you know, the definition of, uh, resilience includes that we have to be able to face adversity in order then [00:30:00] to deal with it well, and not avoid. Um, we don't need to avoid it because we can develop the skills to deal with it at least well enough
[:[00:30:19] fueling [00:30:20] their
[:[00:30:21] Rose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. We've spoken quite a lot about energy,
[:[00:30:45] To, to, you know, to, to manage our time well because we recognize it's a [00:30:50] limited resource, and we need to make the most of it. But I would suggest for people to, transfer that idea to include managing our energy. [00:31:00] So One step there is to notice what sort of energy you might be needy of. You know, I think we can probably all do with more energy in some area or [00:31:10] another at any time.
[:[00:31:37] We have to put more in, in order then to be [00:31:40] able to use it again. So think of energy as being a, a, something like an energy account. If we use it, we have to top it up again, and that's [00:31:50] by doing those, re-energizing activities or, taking time in a way that energizes us.
[:[00:32:18] Anything you can't [00:32:20] control goes outside the circle. So, you know, I know how easy it is to use up energy complaining about the English weather, for example. You know? [00:32:30] And, you can't do anything about that. Well, in most places in the world, you know, there will be times when you think, "Oh, it's so annoying that today turns out to be gray or cold or whatever it [00:32:40] is." But that fits outside the circle. But putting it on paper like that, in that visual form
[:[00:33:08] So an [00:33:10] energy audit, think about it in terms of an energy account, and think about it in terms of where that energy can be best harnessed and used, in order to [00:33:20] make a difference rather than having it dissipate and wasted. Waste of good energy.
[:[00:33:40] joining me, Rose
[:[00:33:50] Hey supers, that's it. My conversation with Dr. Rose Agdami in the bag. You can find links to Rose's work, her book, How to Fuel Your [00:34:00] Resilience, and her website in the show notes. one idea that's staying with me from our conversation is Rose's invitation to think about our energy in the same way [00:34:10] we think about our time.
[:[00:34:30] until next time, look after yourselves, Pea Soupers, and bye for now
